How masks work

Discussion in 'The VIP Lounj' started by CJ, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin Top Poster

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    I wanted to start a separate thread on masks. I started to bake it into my other, longer thread but decided to split it out.

    I really wish we had better data and a unified message on masks. It hasn't been clearly explained how masks reduce spread and by how much. It seems like it should be obvious but you have a lot of political motivation around masks. You've got people parsing the micron size of an individual organism of the virus and claiming because its smaller than the micron size of the weave of the mask, masks do nothing. You've got people claiming masks give you CO2 poisoning. Yet masks are worn for HOURS (8-12 plus) by surgeons doing long, complex surgeries and they clearly both work to reduce infection and don't kill the surgeons. I've tried to explain to people the mask is reducing the distance of the spread of the water vapor coming out of your lungs when you exhale. The virus is in that vapor. I don't need to stop the one organism of virus, that's not how it works. I just need to stop or contain the vapor. And it doesn't have to be perfect. Let's say we're in a ballroom of 300 people mingling for 2 hours (post business conference happy hour) with 2 infected people. With no masks, 100 people might get COVID. With 50% masks, 20 people might get COVID and with 100% masks, 2 more people get COVID. The ultimate death rate just given the statistics might be 3 people with no masks, 1 person with 50% masks and zero people with 100% masks. This is just an example and those infection rates might not be accurate at all but masks do reduce infection and it doesn't have to be a gas mask.

    I just did this in my den in front of my computer right now. Put your hand a foot in front of your face and go hhhhhaaaaa like you would if you were checking if you have bad breath. I can clearly feel my breath on my hand a foot away. Now I put one of those cheap ubiquitous blue polypropylene fabric masks on and do the exact same. I can't feel my breath 1" from the mask. Is some air getting out? Of course. It is not an air-tight filter. But it is filtering, re-directing and generally shorting the plume of air. This video is a little long but makes the point pretty clear. Not that he's not wearing a respirator/gas mask. Its a simple fabric mask.

    Fast forward to 3:10 if you just want to see the imaging of the air flow.
    Around 2:20ish he addresses the fact that the virus is smaller than the mask weave.




    If our administration had put together a 30 second version of this (this is your brain on drugs style) and ran ads encouraging mask wearing, I sincerely believe we'd be in a much better place.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  2. Carl V

    Carl V Bronze Member Donor Top Poster

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    Yes, yet factor in that respiration has Moisture And that changes the permeability of masks. Both ingress and egress. Before the covid mess I would change masks 4+ times a day. Using a heated convection oven will dry out your mask and sanitize the mask. Be careful. It’s still a numbers game.
     
  3. Carl V

    Carl V Bronze Member Donor Top Poster

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    And as to your assertion that a 3O second PSA,Woulda changed things! I am not as optimistic as you. Smoking is still a major Heath issue despite decades of public information. , smokeless tobacco, drugs, teen pregnancies. Alcohol ++++ etc., seat belts. Motorcycle helmets. Drunk driving etc etc etc.

    Like I said I am either more pragmatic or more or more pessimistic than most. Your call.
     
  4. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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    I view masks a lot like I view motorcycle helmets. Oddly enough, in Kansas, a mask is required and a motorcycle helmet is not if you're over 18. Go figure.

    In places where it's required, I can wear a half helmet, a three quarter helmet, a modular helmet. or a full face helmet. And even with that, there are varying degrees of quality in each. The old adage in motorcycling is you buy a helmet for what your heads worth. If you got a good head, you need a good helmet.

    Masks are the pretty much the same. The recommendation is to wear a N95 or better. So, if you can get that, you should be wearing that. If you have issues with your respiration, you should be getting something better. If you're high risk, you should be staying home. It's pretty clear that there are some perfectly healthy people, with no risk factors, that get this thing and get hit like a ton of bricks. And we really don't know why. Get a good mask and wear it around people. This is not rocket science. We're talking about your health. The health of other people is just a bonus.
     
  5. Carl V

    Carl V Bronze Member Donor Top Poster

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    Yes,your health and that of your family or friends who will be dwelling at home. The classic common flu cold situation. You go to school, day care pick up your child. Your child gives you a runny nose, you give your wife the same but she gets a cough in addition to the runny nose. Then another family member runs a fever, sore throat, runny nose and a productive cough. Pretty typical social viral vectoring/ transmission. but now it’s just a wee bit more than a runny nose.
     
  6. Mike B

    Mike B Bronze Member Donor Top Poster

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    I recently ordered up some 2 layer T-shirt material masks after watching some mask review video that claimed they were some of the more effective designs. They are by far the most comfy I've worn and are easy to breath with. Mikey likes 'em.
     
  7. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin Top Poster

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    Is a damp mask worse than no mask? Serious question. I'm not questioning your motives but every time someone says "wear a damn mask" the "yes but did you know the micron size of a gnat's anal fissure" crew comes rolling out with ifs ands and buts.

    Literally. every. single. one. of. those. categories. is. better. from. 50. years. ago.
     
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  8. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin Top Poster

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    You're welcome to view them that way but its not right. No random person in the grocery store dies when you don't wear a motorcycle helmet.

    The problem with this logic is that its selfish and it excuses anyone who think they're invincible. "Its just about my health and I don't care." No its not YOUR health and other people aren't just a bonus.
     
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  9. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh shit. If I don't wear a mask a random person in the grocery store dies!!! Holy fuck.

    Cloth masks are virtue signaling. Do what you want. Fine with me.
     
  10. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin Top Poster

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    They absolutely are not. There is ample evidence and practice supporting that. You're insistence that because the virus is smaller than the weave that they are ineffective is explained as false in the video that started this thread.
     
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  11. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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    I agree if that's all you can afford. But why would you do it?

    You only wear a mask for other people? It's not about you? Don't you fucking have asthma? What reason would you possibly have to fuck around and wear a mask that's not as effective as you can get? Why? You're soooo altruistic that you care about protecting people but not yourself?

    I know you want to win this argument, but it's just stupid. Get a good quality mask and wear it. It's better for you and everyone else.
     
  12. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin Top Poster

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    This is such a bad faith argument. You don't wear a 5 point harness in your Tahoe do you? Why not. Why would you fuck around with your family's life?

    I'm wearing a medical style mask which is a reasonable precaution. Its what medical professionals use to reduce the transmission of diseases in general and prior to this pandemic. This fake argument that because I'm not wearing a full level 5 hazmat suit that I'm virtue signalling is total bullshit.

    You're wearing a respirator style mask? What if someone breaths on your clothes and then you get home and virus migrates to your mouth? Get a full suit you casual!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  13. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bad faith argument? I wear the safety restraints recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. Just like I wear the masks recommended by the medical professionals. I'm not wearing a hazmat suit. I'm wearing a N95 or better. That's what's recommended. If you can afford one, you should too. WTF is medical style?

    Fucking weird hill to die on dude. But whatevs.
     
  14. CJ

    CJ Bronze Member Admin Top Poster

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  15. Drew

    Drew Well-Known Member Top Poster

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    America right now:

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  16. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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  17. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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    You want me to send you some? Then you won't have to wear a cloth mask like that Pussy Trump. Then you'll really feel good.

    20200713_151028-M.jpg
     
  18. DYohn

    DYohn Bronze Member Donor Top Poster

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    The point is: wear a damn mask. I don't care if it's a bandana or a full-body-class-1-suit. Wear a damn mask. Everyone. All the time in public. And no, it's not at all like motorcycle helmets, exactly for the reason CJ cites. If you choose to not wear a helmet and split your head open on the pavement you are only killing yourself. If you are infected with Coronavirus and choose to not wear a mask because you don't realize you are infected you can potentially spread that shit to everyone you come into contact with. So not the same at all.
     
  19. JeffC

    JeffC Well-Known Member Donor

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    You should care. There is a vast difference in what goes in and out of those various coverings.
     
  20. DYohn

    DYohn Bronze Member Donor Top Poster

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    Nope/ It's the face covering that matters most.
     

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